Necro scenario - ao3/soth

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Necro scenario - ao3/soth

Post by Delerium » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:56 am

It's probably time to bring these back, so now is your chance to have a say in any adjustments we make before activating the Necromancer scenario.

Currently it works as it did in the 90s, and we also have Necromancer soldier shields available if we want to use them.

Suggestions I've seen in the past and am looking at are:
  • Higher HP requirement for items
  • Change the guild to some other mechanism so players can remain in their current guilds
  • Turn the necromancers into a competing faction (i.e. world takeover vs Jonas/Duke/Princess)
  • Make the Lich fight way harder
  • Improve the Lich raising quest, make it a bit more intricate
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Re: Necro scenario - ao3/soth

Post by Baerstein » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:38 am

Ich warte da schon so lange drauf... :D
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Re: Necro scenario - ao3/soth

Post by Maikel » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:32 pm

I'm 100% for the Ao3 and Soth back into the game. I'd suggest not causing RL deaths with Lich kill though as in the past it seemed to easy. Maybe just force all Ao3s to delete from inventories and have the "necro chest" fill up with some other objects such as reagents / shillings, based on how long the queen was alive. This would make people want to let her stay alive at least so the faction can get a head start.

As for guild or faction, I'm game for a new faction, we'd have to balance out the bonuses properly with the other factions or it would be a problem. The main issue I see is if lets say my guild gets both Ao3s and Soths and then we will not attack each other we could have turned it into simply a gods gift game. Which opens another whole can of issues.

What I'd like to see is roleplaying between hunters and undead, but I don't really see that happening with the avid pvpers we have. We could create separate guilds, factions, do events and etc if we wanna go all in on this idea, but we'd have to be all super committed to the idea.
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Re: Necro scenario - ao3/soth

Post by Cottontail » Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:04 am

If it is possible i think a mechanic that forces the necros and hunters to combat each other would be the most exciting. One of the old problems with Ao3/Soths was old characters that never logged on just sat on them. Inactivity at the very least should return the artifacts to brax.

My suggestion would be the only way to get the stat boosts from both pieces, is to be actively combating each other. Inactivity would tick their stats they had gained down, to the point where it would leave them.

As it stands currently Ao3 users are at a bigger risk with the queen, i think that should be taken into consideration.

I personally like the idea i had mentioned in another post of rewarding active pvp combatants with unique end game gear, either based on kills, some kind of point system, or even Ao3 Soth users drop an ear as proof of the kill. X number of ears could be turned in at a special npc.
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Re: Necro scenario - ao3/soth

Post by Delerium » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:27 pm

Some good points here, we definitely need to provide reasons for hunters/necros to keep fighting each other and also reasons not to try game the system/work together. Having soth/ao3 members in the same guild would cause a problem, if we allow them to be guilded (in non-ao3/soth related guilds) perhaps having the item should override guild settings (at least remove the yellow dot on the map, no war participation, allow attacking guild members) while still having access to guild communication. Tough problem...
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Re: Necro scenario - ao3/soth

Post by HazZy » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:56 am

Just bring it back as was before and remove the deaths when lich dies and guild restrictions and role playing (soth holder can attack soth holder)

Then see how the community responds. Less is more,keep it simple. At this rate, we're just going to talk about it for years and its never gonna come back or the decisions gonna be so over thought out and require so much coding and QA and im pretty sure we lack the development resources for that.

JUST DO IT, lifes too short to be thinking. You wanna revive this game, log in and pvp. dont be an ass hole. contribute ideas and implement them quicker and then make adjustments.

SOTHS & Ao3s . so much code already written at the dispoal with results that could lead to a lot of active playerbase. Submiiiitttt it...
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Re: Necro scenario - ao3/soth

Post by Exultus » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:31 am

So. The following things are true:
Artificial pvp aka content driven pvp has ALWAYS been a failure in Meridian. This includes the Necro/Hunter Scenario as well as the Factions.
The current system is too intertwined with, limited by, and limiting to the "class" structure of the game.

I wasn't going to reply to this at all because, simply put, I think in a lot of ways there is some group think going on and I think I'm wasting my time...

1) Eliminate Factions, at least as we know them. Sacred Cow? Maybe. But so were safespots... They are limiting to builds, have never worked other than to allow for targets w/o going red and the Necro/Hunter Scenario can be done right in order to incorporate the intended positives while reducing some of the artificiality and limits in the system. Storywise (for those it matters to) they can unit (at least on the surface, never sure about the tricky Duke) behind the Hunters as a means of ridding the world of a greater threat.

2) Death penalties shouldn't be so scary. I say this as someone with a KD ratio as good as anyone to play this game. The lesson learned was "Plan ahead, log high, mule gear, and make camping the ghost as painful as possible." So lets fix that. Logging in pvp should be MORE painful than death. However right now gear is too valuable and rare and we shouldn't feel like we have to keep gear on mules instead of using it. I have a proposal to redo the current item system a little but understand that part of fixing the pain of death is fixing the system. And what worked in the past with 100+ people logged in won't work with 30. We need to encourage pvp and moreover have pvp that doesn't build hostility among the players. If we lost 2-3%, xp, and continued to have full loot drop in most situations but have the rarity of the items dropped change? I wouldn't log. I'd take the death. Heck if someone logs off unsafe after being hit there should be a ### msg. Same if a ghost is enforced. I'll address the proposed item system in another post (I expect anyway).

3) The Hunters - become a server wide faction. Most players are hunters and there are mechanisms to encourage people to build as hunters and stay hunters when built. There are no limits on the number of hunters and there is no tie to the "class system" as everything can be customized to fit with just about every build. This group should benefit from a building bonus, gain essentially the same pvp bonus as the Necros, and in general have things that unite them and the server to the side of the hunters. Unless you have your pvp flag turned off you should probably be a hunter. Meridian was best when the norm was being a hunter.

4) The Necromancers - The necromancers are limited in number (which should be a number that can easily be altered on the fly). However Necromancers would "reset" every meridian yearish. The mechanics here would be designed to be used for end game characters only (and limited to them through requirements) and would essentially prevent building. Also being a necro would be socially limiting but designed to encourage pvp. The benefits of being a necro is that being hunted and pking is fun. Other than that? Not much, at least over being a hunter. But they will have a ton of social penalties.

5) The Scenario would include town take overs with dramatic consequences (price increases from npcs server-wide, towns essentially shut down for travel and use, fewer "Faction Points" earned for the hunters and more for the necros, benefits for the necromancers, etc. Death during a town takeover would function much like in the survival arena. The Necros would get FP for any hunter killed anywhere (and no penalty for killing non-aligned) but would get more FP for completing murder quests from the Lich Queen (Billy has been unsafe for X hours Y minutes and is located on a screen with 1 other person, kill him), taking towns and holding them, turning in tokens to the lich queen, killing hunter NPCS, etc. Hunters gain FP for killing Necros, Killing Necro NPCs, holding towns and taking them back, and all hunters active would receive some by limiting the success of the necromancers.

6) The Shield - Necros get black, Hunters can choose Red/Blue/Green/Purple/White/Grey/etc. Each shield's benefits are exactly the same. They enable you to earn and use faction points. They also get stronger as you continue to earn faction points. You select two statistics that can be increased from (+3 to +5 should be fine), select one magic school for a sizable spell power bonus, select a primary function (Defense bonus, armor bonus, offense bonus, melee damage, bow damage, spell damage, etc) and one secondary bonus (same list, can't be doubled up on).

7) Tokens - drop just like normal and Councilors want them back (letting go of their power is a united world is hard for them). Hunters can turn them into the councilor for gold and a boon (that helps them build and fight and is related to the Councilor's domain. Cylill gives increased WC imp rate and some offense & wc damage. Alzahakar gives some spellpower and spell imp rate bonus. Esseldi gives some mana regen and a spell imp rate bonus. Drechx gives some hp regen and a tougher rate bonus. Bei naq reduces the cost of regs and has mobs drop more money. The boons would last 5 hours AT THE LONGEST (logged in time). Necromancers would turn their tokens into the Lich Queen and doing so would provide the same boon to all Necromancers and wouldn't have a building element at all.

8) The Stigma and Power of being a Necromancer - As a necro you can't enter any safezones except for necro only safezones (that non-necros can't enter) such as Roq's room, a back room in Yevitan's bank accessible from Jasper, the "Wall Door" in the guard tower in which you'll find the corrupt guard, etc. These rooms have NPCs that sell everything required to keep fighting and a room set up as well as common chests for all necros to use, npcs (including the Queen when the necros haven't taken a town) and a portal that will port you to an out of the way location that currently has no one on it (if possible). When you try to enter Fams as a necro it says "This door has been barred to you from the inside" or some such. Your name is black and you always look like a necro after the dispel). NPCs out in the wild (unless they are corrupt and on the Necromancers' side) won't sell to you or buy from you. Non-Necros can't heal or buff you (at any time). Silver arrows and holy damage hurt you more. Seance cast by a hunter within a few screens tell them where you are (unless cloaked / in a safe zone or guildhall / logged off or phased). Hunt applies the same way but repeatedly for a duration upon moving screens uncloaked. They are removed from their guild (don't let guild leaders become Necros, they must abdicate first). Also mechanically you can't gain %/toughers as a necro. In order to become a Necromancer you must have max hp -10 and three schools to level 5 or 150 hp. They do not have red penalties including revs, they do not have karma changes (in fact they may set their karma to whatever by talking to the lich queen), they all gain health/mana/vigor when one kills a player (higher their victim's max hp the more they gain), standing in one place without moving and outside of one of their safezones for a few seconds will auto-cast fade silently, they gain a slight vamp effect to weapons (hp) and damage spells (mana) in pvp. However the biggest benefit is that at the end of the meridian year the necromancer is white and able to rejoin society. =)

9) The Benefits of being a Hunter - You gain an increased xp rate, and imp rate / softcap resistance benefits in all schools. Gain a warning when a necromancer logs on, Seance/Hunt changes, the Martyr's Battleground spell provides you defense, the rallying cry skill provides you small bonuses across the board (Off / Def / Weapon and Spell Damage) dependent on how many people are both following your call and with you on the screen. Hunters must always be innocent. Only hunters may vote for Justicar.

10) Town takeovers by the necromancers make all the NPCs flee to other locations. Instead all the necromancer friendly NPCs will spawn in that town and the town's buildings become necro safezones. Inside town is the lich queen and quite a few really tough mobs (and more spawn as non-necros enter), outside these towns at the gates are easier but still scary mobs (creating a troll in bob effect for the paths around that town). Necros can buy for normal prices, spend TP, spend FP, gain %s, etc here and in the necro only safezones there. In town they control they have increased vamp effects and hp/mana regen. From the inn there are now portals to every necro safezone as well as the portal to the boonies.

11) Items and Faction Points. Faction points are spent and last only till the end of the meridian year and in return you gain high end gear. This includes Hold/Blind/Blast/Purge weapons that also may include (increased justice (and "blood" for the necros) weapons, MSH/GGs (reworked GGs), "Master Robes" (customizable ala the shield menu to select two schools), "Warplate", as well as "Loyal Minions" who are either hunters/necros too). When you die a relic of these items drop into the opponent's inventory but it does not drop as loot, instead the more FP your stuff cost, the more the killer earns (still a % of its cost though).

Note: I'm bored now so I'm done. The above has not been proof read or spell checked or anything expected of a finished product and I was repeatedly distracted while writing it!
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Re: Necro scenario - ao3/soth

Post by Morbus » Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:26 am

I do like a lot of those thoughts. It's absolutely correct that we shouldn't preserve something simply because of it having been there forever. Every game mechanic should be examined in regard to what it brings to the game. If a concept promotes stalling and safe play, it doesnt help the game.
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Re: Necro scenario - ao3/soth

Post by HazZy » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:22 am

I dont think having soth and ao3 holders in the same guild is a problem. It's consistent with having toons from all 3 rival factions with supreme ranked shields in the same guild. Guilds will naturally shift towards supporting the sword or the aoe3 naturally like tokens, faction land and shrines currently work (well atleast in theory).

The community needs to drive the game with as little admin interaction / what if / use case scenario code as possible. The faction system with the land and tokens and the shrine systems are perfect examples of where m59 community and game mechanics are balanced and "fun".

I say "fun" to isolate the experience of putting a faction in power from stuff like npc quests or taking over guild halls or the justice system which fall more into the "lame and avoided" experience of the game. The former is worth it for player/community ROI where the others .. not so much (shatter lock for 8-12 hours or whatever? No thx).

I still think xeos should be brought back without people losing the node. The escaped convict maybe worth it too. Survival mode is definitely an awesome addition.

As far as PVP goes, that's always been driven by community. I think hedging on the lich queen and Hunters as an incentive/driver for Pvp is going to result in the opposite of what you guys think. Just like different factions work with different builds, people from the same guild will just pick a soth or ao3 depending on which karma school they have. And then the guild with more ao3s or soths will just have a slight edge in pvp....but, this won't generate pvp....if anything, it's contribution to pvp would be the incentive to log on because of the news about ao3s and soths returning ...increased population, supply and demand of cool items would net some population and pvp increase.

The games good. When we have pvp it's really good compares to how it was back in the day. A lot of the mule issues, penalty stacking issues etc etc have been solved. Conveyance and phase and loot table chabyes, damage n defense and stat formulas ... training points....well all of the updates to the core game were SPOT ON.

Only issue I have is hold having a timer on it precast. Not sure about this one yet. Altho riija is insanely OP and the old hold on 112 with Riija is basically a first blind seals the deal in maybe not.

Legalize everything 2017!
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